Woman in Law Interview with Advocate Kundani Ramashia

This week we chat with Advocate Kundani Rorisang Ramashia, who is a family advocate and holds a BCom Law and LLB degree. Advocate Ramashia’s qualifications also include Short Courses in Divorce and Family Mediation.

She completed her Articles of Clerkship and became admitted as an attorney in 2013 and practiced as such up until December 2018 when she was appointed as a Family Advocate. She is currently in the process of formally removing her name from the Attorneys’ roll, to the roll of Advocates.

Advocate Ramashia’s area of expertise lies in Divorce, Family and Child Law. She has also ventured into lecturing where she lectured first and second year law students, as well as for LSSALEAD.

Below is our interview with the phenomenal woman in law!

FWIL:

What inspired you to study law?

KR:

Funny story that. My dad is an Advocate, so he has been hammering law down my throat since I can remember. But because I’m stubborn, when I got to university, I wanted to assert my individuality and register for anything BUT law! So I went for a BCom Marketing at (then) RAU. During my first year, my boyfriend at the time who was studying law asked me to accompany him to a lecture, the module being “The Law of Persons” if memory serves me well. The lecturer was dealing with the concept of “Domicilium citandi et executandi” (in English: a party’s nominated address where documents and notices can be served in legal proceedings). At the end of that lecture I remember thinking “wow, this is the first lecture where I actually listened intently to the subject matter being covered from beginning to end! If these law students get to engage with such relevant and interesting material on a daily, then I want in!” I wanted to learn more. So, I returned home that weekend with my tail between my legs and informed my parents that I would be de-registering from Marketing and beginning my Law degree forthwith. Turns out that I am my father’s child after all *inserts rolling eyes emoti*.

FWIL:

Would you say that you are currently managing two careers, one in academics and one as a legal practitioner? Is this something that you have always wanted to do?

KR

Not particularly. I am a firm believer in exploring various avenues in the quest to determining who you are, what you enjoy and are passionate about, and what it is that you excel in. In the Legal sphere, I have worked in one of the top tier corporate law firms in the country, headed up a community legal advice office support project at a National Legal NGO, provided mediation services, lectured first and second year law students at tertiary level, and conducted lectures for Legal Secretaries as part of the Law Society of South Africa’s “LEAD” (Legal Education And Development) course. I am currently practicing as a Family Advocate, which is my focus for now.

FWIL:

Why a specific interest to go into academics?

KR:

The opportunity presented itself at a time when I felt that I wanted to stretch myself further in the legal field and attempt something I had never done before. It was incredibly daunting standing in front of a lecture hall full of students (looking so young myself) and many-a-time I felt out of my depth. I am so grateful for the experience however; as I believe it deepened my knowledge and understanding of various legal topics because I was forced to re-study every angle of the relevant subject matter in order to effectively educate the next person, and field questions on it. My two years in academics and the positive feedback I received from students and peers alike also assisted to build my confidence. In addition, the experience aided me when I returned to practice as I had learned the invaluable skill of breaking down complex legal concepts into tangible everyday examples that the “lay-person” can understand. It was a deeply enriching experience and I am still in contact with some of my students to date. Academics / Lecturing is something that I would definitely consider again in the future, even if it is on a part-time basis.

FWIL:

Why did you choose the Advocate route and not the Attorney route?

KR:

I actually completed my articles, wrote board exams, became admitted as an attorney in 2013, and practiced as such up until December 2018 when I became appointed as a Family Advocate. It is only now that I am in the process of formally removing my name from the Attorneys’ roll, to the roll of Advocates.

I suppose I initially went the Attorney route because I wanted to experience the big “corporate law firm life” and gain experience from that perspective. I was never really keen on spending too much time in court.

FWIL:

As a black woman in law, have you experienced gender and race-related bias? Please tell us about the challenges, if any, that you have faced.

KR:

YES!! Whilst it becomes somewhat less prevalent and pronounced as you “build your name in the game” and gain experience which in turn gives you the confidence to make yourself heard when circumstances require it, it is a challenge that we cannot pretend does not STILL exist. Often times it is not overt, but rather a sense you get that a principal, opponent or even presiding officer is of the opinion that you are only in your position due to the colour of your skin, or gender, or both, and that you have no right to be occupying that space. Worse still, I’m a tiny 1.57 meter black woman – so just walking in the room sometimes, I am met with that “argh what the hell does she know” stare…until I start talking haha!

FWIL:

What does being an alpha female mean to you and would you describe yourself as one?

KR:

An alpha female to me is a women who is self-affirmed, deals with challenges with integrity, is never too knowledgeable or experienced to stop learning, honestly confronts and works on her inner demons, makes her own life decisions and lives with those decisions (or bravely changes the course should it be necessary), fearlessly goes after her dreams, and most importantly, lifts others up with her.

Oh would you look at that, I have just described my mother! And yes, this is what I strive for.

FWIL:

Do you identify as a feminist? (Why/why not)

KR:

If we are defining it as per the google dictionary definition being “the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes”, then yes, we should all be feminists.

FWIL:

What does women empowerment mean to you?

KR:

It simply means getting to the point where nobody has to work harder to prove that they deserve an opportunity or be treated with respect, simply because they were born with different body parts. The same applies to race. It’s so simple. Yet here we are hundreds of years later.

FWIL:

The journey of most legal professionals is not always easy. What are some of the lessons you have learned along the way and how have they shaped your outlook on life?

KR:

It is an incredibly arduous journey. My particular journey took 8 years in total (two degrees = 6 years of university + 2 years of articles & board exams), which is one year shy of the 9 years it would have taken to qualify as a medical doctor! This is why we hate being asked for FREE legal advice (LOL)!!

Anyway, back to the question at hand. In light of the above, if you’re not committed to the end goal or at least passionate about the law, it is easy to fall by the way-side. My journey has taught me discipline, tunnel vision focus where necessary, the benefits of delayed gratification, and also how I’m capable of so much more than I imagined when I work hard and give my all.

Encouragement to the young aspiring legal eagles when the road and many late nights feel lonely, long and insurmountable: Picture the day that you are standing in a court room before a High Court Judge in your Sunday best attire, and the learned judge, in the presence of your loved ones who have sacrificed and walked the journey with you, confirms that on the papers before him / her, you have met all of the requirements and are deemed to be a fit and proper person to officially be admitted as an attorney or advocate of the High Court of South Africa! It is a moment you will cherish forever.

FWIL:

What is the best advice you would give to a woman in law?

KR:

Work damn hard, stay abreast of case law and current affairs, try to always be prepared, believe in your capabilities, let your work speak for itself, and go the extra mile – it is never crowded.

FWIL:

What recent change/amendment in the law has caught your attention? (Do you agree with the change? Why/why not)

KR:

The ruling of the Pretoria High Court which found that the sections of the South African Citizenship Amendment Act which exclude citizenship by decent for children born outside of the Republic of South Africa prior to 01 January 2013, but whose parents are South African Citizens, are unconstitutional.

Whilst the Constitutional Court in its judgement of 22 July 2020 refused to confirm the ruling of unconstitutionality by the High Court, it did however order that the Applicants (who were born outside of the Republic of South Africa but whose parents are South African Citizens) be granted South African citizenship by the Department of Home Affairs (the Respondent in the matter) and be provided with South African Identity Documents.

In my view, the Constitutional Court stopped short of deeming the aforesaid legislation unconstitutional due to the potentially far-reaching consequences of such a ruling. According to the learned Judge Khampepe, the offending sections should not be interpreted in a “narrow” and “prospective-only” manner, as that is what produces the unfair and unjustified consequences on those affected thereby. The learned Judge was furthermore unsatisfied with the High Court’s failure to provide “full reasons” for its order of invalidity.

FWIL:

Our world is constantly changing, in your opinion, what are some of the challenges that legal professionals will face in future?

KR:

Mopping up the ever-growing mess created by DIY online templates. Whilst there is certainly place for this in our changing tech driven landscape; complex and / or high conflict matters whether commercial or family law related in nature, cannot simply be dispensed with by way of a DIY online template, the origin of which is sometimes not even South African! People must do their research in order to determine whether their particular matter is one fit for a “DIY” job, or whether it is one requiring sound professional legal intervention to avoid a bigger mess later down the line. I have seen this happen professionally and personally. As legal practitioners however, we must also evolve and adapt in our approach, seeking practical cost-effective ways by which we can serve our clients and the public at large.

FWIL:

As a legal professional, it is quite important to effectively use your network. How do you meet other professionals and what are some of your effective networking skills?

KR:

I have remained in contact with many of the (now) legal practitioners who I met and studied Law with in University, previous colleagues, principals and students, and other legal practitioners which I have met along the way.

FWIL:

What does the term “role model” mean to you? Is there a particular woman in your life that you consider a role model?

KR:

To me, it is not an all-encompassing perfect being whom I aspire to be. Its bits and pieces of different women that I admire. A’s mind, B’s Style, C’s fearless attitude, D’s empathy and compassion, E’s achievements, how F handles money, the type of mother that G is, and so on. So, as you can see, I choose to identify various traits from different women whom I admire. Some specific women that stand out however are my mom (Reneilwe Ramashia), Michelle Obama, Azania Mosaka, Winnie Mandela and Oprah Winfrey.

FWIL:

What books have you read that have greatly influenced your life?

KR:

• The Gift of Pain – by Dr Brand (A renowned MD specialising in Leprosy).
• Shoe Dog – by Phil Knight (the founder of Nike).
• A Return to Love – by Marianne Williamson (Author, spiritual leader and activist).

FWIL:

What’s a quote that you live by? Your mantra

KR:

There are two – the first is a principle I learned from my parents, the second is a quote by Winston Churchill:

• “If it is yours or meant for you, nothing and no-one in the world can close the door on you or snatch it from your grip, regardless of your circumstances. And if it is not yours or not meant for you, there is nothing in the world you can do to make it yours (or keep it within your grip).” Moral of the story is, do your best, pray, and trust God for the rest. – Adv. and Mrs Ramashia.
• “Success is not final; failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts” – Winston Churchill.

FWIL:

What is your take on mentorship and are you open to mentoring young lawyers or law students?

KR:

I have been wrestling with this question for some time now. For many years I did not feel equipped nor “knowledgeable enough” to mentor another human being, despite having received many requests to do so. But in the past year or so I literally receive DMs on a weekly basis either from aspiring lawyers (law students) requesting guidance or “tips” on how to succeed in the field, recently graduated or admitted legal eagles requesting assistance with job opportunities, or young men and women doing their articles or pupillage requesting mentoring. I cannot respond to every message as there are not enough hours in the day L however this clear need has moved me to try to figure out ways in which I, with the assistance of fellow learned friends, can assist groups of people at a time in an effective and tangible manner. I am therefore developing an idea which I hope to share on my social media soon!!

FWIL:

How can people reach out to you? (social media handles)

KR:

@KundzzGP on Twitter and Instagram.

I also cook pretty well in my spare time so check out kundiskitchen.wordpress.com to get to know the foodie side of meJ